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	<title>Comments on: Tab Controls without the Tabs</title>
	<atom:link href="http://sixfriedrice.com/wp/tab-controls-without-the-tabs/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://sixfriedrice.com/wp/tab-controls-without-the-tabs/</link>
	<description>smart business solutions</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2010 15:15:59 -0500</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Karen Stella</title>
		<link>http://sixfriedrice.com/wp/tab-controls-without-the-tabs/comment-page-1/#comment-1933</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen Stella</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jun 2010 23:03:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sixfriedrice.com/wp/tab-controls-without-the-tabs/#comment-1933</guid>
		<description>One more bit of fun; set the type point size to &#039;1&#039; so the tab height isn&#039;t wasted space, or interferes with objects above. 
Also, as long as it overlaps the tab area, a graphic can remain on the an invisible tab itself (not in the body of the tab). I used that to control hide and show of navigation bars across the top of the header with no wasted space.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One more bit of fun; set the type point size to &#8216;1&#8242; so the tab height isn&#8217;t wasted space, or interferes with objects above.<br />
Also, as long as it overlaps the tab area, a graphic can remain on the an invisible tab itself (not in the body of the tab). I used that to control hide and show of navigation bars across the top of the header with no wasted space.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Potter</title>
		<link>http://sixfriedrice.com/wp/tab-controls-without-the-tabs/comment-page-1/#comment-1910</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Potter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 04:42:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sixfriedrice.com/wp/tab-controls-without-the-tabs/#comment-1910</guid>
		<description>I just found this wed site doing a search for tab control and I got to say that this is what I was looking for. Thanks for the tip</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just found this wed site doing a search for tab control and I got to say that this is what I was looking for. Thanks for the tip</p>
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		<title>By: Script Triggers: Monitoring and Restoring Tabs : SFR FileMaker Blog</title>
		<link>http://sixfriedrice.com/wp/tab-controls-without-the-tabs/comment-page-1/#comment-1548</link>
		<dc:creator>Script Triggers: Monitoring and Restoring Tabs : SFR FileMaker Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 00:51:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sixfriedrice.com/wp/tab-controls-without-the-tabs/#comment-1548</guid>
		<description>[...] panel is front most. To use it, though, you first need to give your tabs object names. We&#8217;ve showed you how to do this before but here&#8217;s a quick refresher. If you&#8217;re already an object names expert, you can skip [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] panel is front most. To use it, though, you first need to give your tabs object names. We&#8217;ve showed you how to do this before but here&#8217;s a quick refresher. If you&#8217;re already an object names expert, you can skip [...]</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Introducing FileMaker Pro 10 : SFR FileMaker Blog</title>
		<link>http://sixfriedrice.com/wp/tab-controls-without-the-tabs/comment-page-1/#comment-1405</link>
		<dc:creator>Introducing FileMaker Pro 10 : SFR FileMaker Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 14:04:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sixfriedrice.com/wp/tab-controls-without-the-tabs/#comment-1405</guid>
		<description>[...] a certain tab in your tab control. In FileMaker 9, the intrepid developer would have to delve into hidden tabs, masked buttons, and who knows what else to pull this off. After all, scripts run when people click [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a certain tab in your tab control. In FileMaker 9, the intrepid developer would have to delve into hidden tabs, masked buttons, and who knows what else to pull this off. After all, scripts run when people click [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff Coffey</title>
		<link>http://sixfriedrice.com/wp/tab-controls-without-the-tabs/comment-page-1/#comment-1400</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff Coffey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 15:04:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sixfriedrice.com/wp/tab-controls-without-the-tabs/#comment-1400</guid>
		<description>Janet: Somehow I missed your comment, but I&#039;ll address it now. I almost completely agree with you. I am not a fan of complicated or hard-to-work-with &quot;tricks&quot; in FileMaker because they just make maintenance harder. But this technique is one I use sparingly. It &lt;em&gt;is&lt;/em&gt; difficult to work with a layout once you&#039;ve put a hidden tab there, so we have to make a decision to accept that every time we use it.

I don&#039;t think I&#039;ve ever user this technique to get &quot;better tabs&quot; than FileMaker provides out of the box though. I use this technique when I need a little dynamic behavior on the layout. For instance, in one project I&#039;m working on now, we&#039;re building a layout that combines functionality from half a dozen places in one streamlines UI for a particular group of users. As such:

1: The layout is really cramped for space.
2: The layout is complex (lots going on).

In one area, the user make a choice which influences the UI for a portion of the screen. The choices they make early on change which portals, buttons, and text we display further down the screen. We really had three choices in doing this:

1: Use a separate layout for each variation (there are three) and switch as appropriate. Because this layout is complex, that would mean maintaining a lot of duplicated complexity across three layouts (or possibly four, since there&#039;s the &quot;not yet known&quot; state as well).

2: Use a &quot;wizard&quot; type system. This just introduces extra clicks, and streamlined entry is this layouts Raison d&#039;être. Users will be working through this process many times a day.

3: Use real tabs. The problem with this was subtle, but it just wasn&#039;t natural. We were asking the user a couple of questions, essentially, and it didn&#039;t feel right to work the answers into tabs.

So we opted instead to put each version of the changing portion of the layout into a tab panel, hide the tabs, and switch to the correct version automatically as the user works with the screen.

This sort of thing comes up now and again, and in case like this we use the hidden tab technique. It is definitely a judgement call, though.

Also, we&#039;ve taken to &quot;labeling&quot; our layouts when we do this kind of hackery, which is a technique I&#039;ll write up some time.

Thanks, and we love your blog,

Geoff</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Janet: Somehow I missed your comment, but I&#8217;ll address it now. I almost completely agree with you. I am not a fan of complicated or hard-to-work-with &#8220;tricks&#8221; in FileMaker because they just make maintenance harder. But this technique is one I use sparingly. It <em>is</em> difficult to work with a layout once you&#8217;ve put a hidden tab there, so we have to make a decision to accept that every time we use it.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;ve ever user this technique to get &#8220;better tabs&#8221; than FileMaker provides out of the box though. I use this technique when I need a little dynamic behavior on the layout. For instance, in one project I&#8217;m working on now, we&#8217;re building a layout that combines functionality from half a dozen places in one streamlines UI for a particular group of users. As such:</p>
<p>1: The layout is really cramped for space.<br />
2: The layout is complex (lots going on).</p>
<p>In one area, the user make a choice which influences the UI for a portion of the screen. The choices they make early on change which portals, buttons, and text we display further down the screen. We really had three choices in doing this:</p>
<p>1: Use a separate layout for each variation (there are three) and switch as appropriate. Because this layout is complex, that would mean maintaining a lot of duplicated complexity across three layouts (or possibly four, since there&#8217;s the &#8220;not yet known&#8221; state as well).</p>
<p>2: Use a &#8220;wizard&#8221; type system. This just introduces extra clicks, and streamlined entry is this layouts Raison d&#8217;être. Users will be working through this process many times a day.</p>
<p>3: Use real tabs. The problem with this was subtle, but it just wasn&#8217;t natural. We were asking the user a couple of questions, essentially, and it didn&#8217;t feel right to work the answers into tabs.</p>
<p>So we opted instead to put each version of the changing portion of the layout into a tab panel, hide the tabs, and switch to the correct version automatically as the user works with the screen.</p>
<p>This sort of thing comes up now and again, and in case like this we use the hidden tab technique. It is definitely a judgement call, though.</p>
<p>Also, we&#8217;ve taken to &#8220;labeling&#8221; our layouts when we do this kind of hackery, which is a technique I&#8217;ll write up some time.</p>
<p>Thanks, and we love your blog,</p>
<p>Geoff</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff Coffey</title>
		<link>http://sixfriedrice.com/wp/tab-controls-without-the-tabs/comment-page-1/#comment-1399</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff Coffey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 14:53:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sixfriedrice.com/wp/tab-controls-without-the-tabs/#comment-1399</guid>
		<description>John: In FileMaker 8-8.5, even a zero-width tab would be clickable ever so slightly. But in 9.0, this is no longer the case. To get a tab that can&#039;t be clicked, you have to take all the steps, though:

1: Remove the Emboss effect
2: Set the line thickness to 0px
3: Set the tab width to 0

If you do all three of these &lt;em&gt;and&lt;/em&gt; you are on FileMaker 9.0 or later, you will no longer be able to click to switch tabs at all.

Geoff</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John: In FileMaker 8-8.5, even a zero-width tab would be clickable ever so slightly. But in 9.0, this is no longer the case. To get a tab that can&#8217;t be clicked, you have to take all the steps, though:</p>
<p>1: Remove the Emboss effect<br />
2: Set the line thickness to 0px<br />
3: Set the tab width to 0</p>
<p>If you do all three of these <em>and</em> you are on FileMaker 9.0 or later, you will no longer be able to click to switch tabs at all.</p>
<p>Geoff</p>
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		<title>By: John Lannon</title>
		<link>http://sixfriedrice.com/wp/tab-controls-without-the-tabs/comment-page-1/#comment-1398</link>
		<dc:creator>John Lannon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 00:47:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sixfriedrice.com/wp/tab-controls-without-the-tabs/#comment-1398</guid>
		<description>Just a little bump as the comments on this one seem to have gone to sleep...

I&#039;ve essentially been using this technique, but have not been able to solve one thing:

Quoting the note from the post:&quot;You’ll notice that FileMaker still leaves some space at the top of the tab control for where the tabs should be rendered. To eliminate the space as much as possible, set the Font Size on the tab to 1 points.&quot;

Even with width set to 0px and font size set to 1px, there is still a small bit of active space for each tab (about 2px x 10px per tab - depending on font used ) that a user could click. So, an errant click could set off a chain of events that could change the state, confuse the user and potentially break the app. Does anyone know of a way to disable the tabs altogether? I&#039;ve tried overlaying other elements, making those elements buttons, etc. No luck.

While this technique does overcome some limitations of the tab controls, it is definitely hackish. I agree with Tokerud: using the tab controls as intended is the wisest strategy. However, given the small chance of an errant click, perhaps it&#039;s a fine compromise. I guess one could eliminate the chance of an errant click on a tab by increasing the size of the tab panel...

Seems like the only bulletproof solution is the old-fashioned multi-layout tab interface.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a little bump as the comments on this one seem to have gone to sleep&#8230;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve essentially been using this technique, but have not been able to solve one thing:</p>
<p>Quoting the note from the post:&#8221;You’ll notice that FileMaker still leaves some space at the top of the tab control for where the tabs should be rendered. To eliminate the space as much as possible, set the Font Size on the tab to 1 points.&#8221;</p>
<p>Even with width set to 0px and font size set to 1px, there is still a small bit of active space for each tab (about 2px x 10px per tab &#8211; depending on font used ) that a user could click. So, an errant click could set off a chain of events that could change the state, confuse the user and potentially break the app. Does anyone know of a way to disable the tabs altogether? I&#8217;ve tried overlaying other elements, making those elements buttons, etc. No luck.</p>
<p>While this technique does overcome some limitations of the tab controls, it is definitely hackish. I agree with Tokerud: using the tab controls as intended is the wisest strategy. However, given the small chance of an errant click, perhaps it&#8217;s a fine compromise. I guess one could eliminate the chance of an errant click on a tab by increasing the size of the tab panel&#8230;</p>
<p>Seems like the only bulletproof solution is the old-fashioned multi-layout tab interface.</p>
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		<title>By: Janet Tokerud</title>
		<link>http://sixfriedrice.com/wp/tab-controls-without-the-tabs/comment-page-1/#comment-970</link>
		<dc:creator>Janet Tokerud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 22:18:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sixfriedrice.com/wp/tab-controls-without-the-tabs/#comment-970</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been using the tab controls as is because I like the perfectly seamless look I get and the no-hassle of getting them. I have a philosophy that I want the development changes to be dead simple and extra complexity of fake tabs bothers me. However, this is the best I&#039;ve seen of giving you some of the benefits of the tab control while still allowing you to script the &quot;tabs&quot;. Thanks for taking the time and trouble to document it so well! Anyone out there want to show me your gorgeous fake tabs that can compete with my Studio Manager product tabs using the tab controls generically? I am all ears.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been using the tab controls as is because I like the perfectly seamless look I get and the no-hassle of getting them. I have a philosophy that I want the development changes to be dead simple and extra complexity of fake tabs bothers me. However, this is the best I&#8217;ve seen of giving you some of the benefits of the tab control while still allowing you to script the &#8220;tabs&#8221;. Thanks for taking the time and trouble to document it so well! Anyone out there want to show me your gorgeous fake tabs that can compete with my Studio Manager product tabs using the tab controls generically? I am all ears.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Nick Stockbridge</title>
		<link>http://sixfriedrice.com/wp/tab-controls-without-the-tabs/comment-page-1/#comment-934</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Stockbridge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 10:31:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sixfriedrice.com/wp/tab-controls-without-the-tabs/#comment-934</guid>
		<description>No insightful comment to make, just many thanks for such a great idea. I think this is how I will always do my &quot;wizard&quot; style screens, e.g. Step 1, please enter name and address, Step 2, please enter phone, email etc. Just to think, I unnecessarily made all those extra layouts, just because I needed a script to validate data input and then go somewhere afterwards for the next set of fields (i.e, another layout).  Thanks again!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No insightful comment to make, just many thanks for such a great idea. I think this is how I will always do my &#8220;wizard&#8221; style screens, e.g. Step 1, please enter name and address, Step 2, please enter phone, email etc. Just to think, I unnecessarily made all those extra layouts, just because I needed a script to validate data input and then go somewhere afterwards for the next set of fields (i.e, another layout).  Thanks again!</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://sixfriedrice.com/wp/tab-controls-without-the-tabs/comment-page-1/#comment-849</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 00:39:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sixfriedrice.com/wp/tab-controls-without-the-tabs/#comment-849</guid>
		<description>Another method which may be slightly quicker is to double-click the Tab Control, keep the pixels set at 0, but change the Tab Justification to Full. This gives you nice big tabs you can easily move between in layout mode. Once your layout changes are complete, change the justification back to Left, Right or Center and the tabs shrink back to nothing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another method which may be slightly quicker is to double-click the Tab Control, keep the pixels set at 0, but change the Tab Justification to Full. This gives you nice big tabs you can easily move between in layout mode. Once your layout changes are complete, change the justification back to Left, Right or Center and the tabs shrink back to nothing.</p>
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